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Clipper Summer'87 18 Jul 2021 21:21 #19114

  • Terry
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  • Hi Michaylov


    You wrote: "...... I really did not understand where to find "Windows Through .Net" ?

    My thanks to Dick who has shown you where to find it.

    You make two further points: One "I am not sure which theory is best for me" and Two "...... I did not find any connection to programming".

    I will try to answer them.

    Your pc works on the basis of scientific/mathematical fact. There must be no guess-work in this if things are to work correctly (despite the fact that if you proceed you will find numerous probabilities involved). As human beings we all have some baseline understanding of things. We learn from our individually perceived environments and events that take place around us, absorbing and integrating added information into what we already know.

    Only the individual knows what is in his/her mind.

    So when I said build up your understanding on the basis of what you did in Clipper, I meant build up your understanding on the basis of what you understood you were doing when you were programming years ago.

    Do not mix Programming Language with understanding what is going on when your program runs.

    Theory is theory. The way your program works is exactly the same as the way any other program works (under the same O/S). It is totally independent of the Computer Language you use. The way it works may be presented correctly or incorrectly. You and only you can make the decision as to whether you believe the way things are presented are correct or not.

    No one can pro-actively teach a third party to understand. It is always a two-way mutual understanding that allows information to be transferred from one individual to another.

    So it is you who must make the "connection" from Theory to code.

    The best any third party can do is try to "nudge" you towards a common understanding with themselves.

    It is my personal opinion that things become much easier to understand if you have some idea of what is going on. Code does not have to be involved at all as evidenced by Dick's "asking what car to drive" analogy.

    Hope that makes some sense.

    Terry

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    Clipper Summer'87 22 Jul 2021 20:30 #19148

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  • Thank you all of you for advices and the links to articles.
    I started reading the 12 articles by Johan Nel but went lost after the 4th article.
    I briefly red the article "windows through dot net" and did not understand much.
    Maybe it is my fault that I did not manage to explain my know-how and my goals.
    So I used to program some applications, used in MS-DOS for some calculations on the computer display, storing the changes to a dBase database and then be able to do some operations with this database and create some reports.
    All this happened 30 years ago.
    Since then I am still working in the IT Branch, however in the system administration and leading projects for server migration in data centers.
    As I am not working this anymore, I am just considering what I can do next, remembering to had have fun 30 years ago programming in Clipper Summer'87.
    You have to think of my present knowledge, as a newbie who knows what programming is, but without any present experience.
    If I decide to start educate myself in direction X# programming, I will need first to understand the area of application of this language X#. Additionally I will need a goal to be reached and a teacher to lead me on this path. However, the first and most important question is - which segment is to be covered with applications, released through X# and if what I earn with such a programming is enough for me to exist and to pay taxes.
    Just to mention the example with the car, given by some one earlier - first I have to know if I need a car and where do I want to drive with this car, second if I will have enough money for this specific car or do I have to buy a chipper one and lastly if I will be able to drive, to control the car on the way.

    I hope I was able to explain my situation and thank you already in advance for your responses!

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    Clipper Summer'87 22 Jul 2021 20:44 #19149

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  • Another question: Is XSharp Programming, developed by Microsoft the same as X#:
    computerscienceassignmentshelp.com/devel...rp-programming-19296

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    Clipper Summer'87 22 Jul 2021 20:52 #19150

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  • Hi Michaylow,
    the XSharp Programming developed by Microsoft seems to be a very, very old and now forgotten project, and has nothing to do with "our" X#.
    Wolfgang
    Wolfgang Riedmann
    Meran, South Tyrol, Italy

    www.riedmann.it - docs.xsharp.it

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    Clipper Summer'87 22 Jul 2021 21:00 #19151

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  • Hi Michaylov,
    it is really difficult to tell you what type of applications can be written with X#: you can write everything with it.
    You can write small utility commandline programs, you can write Windows services, you can write full featured GUI programs of any type.
    The difficult thing may be to find something that is requested and that you can do (of course you need to have knowledge of the things your software should do).
    But since you are working in systems managment: why not write programs that help in this type of work.
    Wolfgang
    Wolfgang Riedmann
    Meran, South Tyrol, Italy

    www.riedmann.it - docs.xsharp.it

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    Clipper Summer'87 03 Aug 2021 18:00 #19244

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  • Hi Michalov
    Further to my last I now realise that understanding “Windows Through .Net” relied too much on recent programming experience.
    I have attached a short pdf which, I hope, will “set the scene” in respect of “How Windows Works” by analogy to what we do and experience in real life.
    Terry

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    Clipper Summer'87 03 Aug 2021 18:21 #19245

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  • Thank you, Terry, all for your replies!

    @Terry, I red your article and I may follow your logic about "Think in big-city terms".
    However this is not helping me to start producing applications with X#.
    It is also not answering the simple question what is the difference between X# and C# per Example.
    I do not know how to explain my problem:
    Imagine I would like to produce a WEB site for connecting customers with craftsmen: p.E. Satellite craftsman who to install a satellite dish on my roof. For this purpose I will need a front WEB page where the customers and craftsmen to register, then I will need a database to keep entered data, I will also need a notebook where the customer and craftsman to be able to communicate to each other. I will need a payment system over which to be able to collect taxes once the customer and craftsman are done with the job and at the end there will be a need of assessment table where every job, done by the craftsman to be evaluated and some comments to be added and kept for further customers. IS X# the most valuable program language for this project?

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    Clipper Summer'87 03 Aug 2021 20:32 #19246

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  • Hi Michalov

    Your simple question "what is the difference between X# and C#" does not have a the simple answer that the question implies.

    You are wrestling with a number of things here - Clipper, X#, C# and possibly more.

    I cannot advise on X# code. Since I code most things in C#. Others here are far better qualified to give X# answers.

    You want to do several essentially different things here and then link them up. X# code, you will need to learn, a - to do each thing and b- to link them up.

    I would always advise anyone learning something new Do NOT LET WHAT YOU ALREADY KNOW, get in the way of understanding something new or something you already know, in a new way.

    That is what, I think you are doing.

    So on that basis forget, for now, C# Clipper and just concentrate on X#. You'll see the links later on in the learning curve.

    Just as an example: many years ago now I was involved with heavy electrical work, Voltages 200,000 volts, High currents and power in Megawatts.

    It took me ages to reconcile this with microprocessor currents of micro amps and less. Numerous apparent contradictions in reasoning arose. I was a long way up the learning curve before it all "clicked in".

    Terry

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    Clipper Summer'87 03 Aug 2021 21:52 #19248

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  • Hello Michalov,

    Clipper wrote: IS X# the most valuable program language for this project?


    As Terry said, this is partly personal and can't be answered for someone else. What you need to know to decide is probably this:
    1 X# keywords syntax is close to Clipper. C# syntax is not close to Clipper and the structure looks much more unreadable/chaotic than that of X#. I find C# still horror compared to X# even after regularely programming in it for years.
    2 X# has a built in database handling for .dbf files (like Clipper). C# has not. Although DBF files can certainly be used also on web systems, they are probably not the most logical choice, you may prefer a SQL dialect, and SQL files can be handled equally well in both languages.
    3 X# has grown very mature and should basically be able to do the same things as C# can. You will find many more code samples in C# than for X#. But you can also chose to mix C# and X# and keep found samples in C#, or convert these to X# using ILSpy.
    4 C# in Visual Studio has options not found (yet) in X# . E.g. Code Lens showing from which methods a certain method is called. Intellisense is slightly better in C#.

    What I would do is download X# and try some sample programs or just do some programming. If it looks good to you you can start a simplified model of your required end result to see if that works for you. You might want to do the same in C# and then make a choice.

    Dick

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    Last edit: by ic2.

    Clipper Summer'87 04 Aug 2021 10:46 #19251

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  • Thank you Dick and all for the advices and tips!

    The reply from Dick gives me a good starting point, so I am going to download and install X# and (probably) PostgreSQL DB, instead of DBF.

    It will be good if I can work on my idea with some other people in sharing project environment?

    Best regards

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