As regular visitors know I hate Visual Studio. It is cumbersome to work and has lots of random errors which have nothing to do with incorrect code. From time time someone replies that they think VS is fantastic and works great.
So I couldn't resist posting this problem:
https://developercommunity.visualstudio ... -1/1302833
In short:
* A user reports in January more or less random error which doesn't make sense: UserControl is not supported in a Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF) project. I have seen that too and with some random actions (which do not make sense) it usually disappears after a while)
* The user is not convinced that Microsoft will take it seriously and already adds in his message "This is a random intermittent problem, so do not close the bug due to lack of information.". This is Microsoft reaction in the majority of posted issues.
* But a wonder happens. SEVEN months later (on August 4) this is posted: A fix for this issue has been internally implemented and is being prepared for release.
I realize that on large projects like Visual Studio it can not be expected that from sometimes 2 hours someone sends a fixed DLL, like Chris has done here more than once. But a serious bug solved only after 7 months......
The user wrote in July " really regret committing to the Microsoft platform 26 years ago - it feels like a totally wasted career"
I can imagine!
Dick
X# issue fixing versus Microsoft VS issue fixing
X# issue fixing versus Microsoft VS issue fixing
Hi Dick,
As you know, I also hate VS! (and almost all MS products for that matter, except for .Net Framework itself!) Every time I am trying to do something more than the very basics with it, I am also getting so many seemingly random errors, with completely unhelpful error messages, so I have completely abandoned doing any development work with it, I am only using it for testing X# integration and investigating/confirming and (in the case of VO editors) fixing myself problems reported on it, or passing them to Robert for fixing.
But still, I realize that some bugs and problems are extremely difficult to fix, when they only happen randomly and especially cannot be reproduced on the developers' machines. Most issues reported regarding X# are easily reproducible, so we can indeed confirm and fix them, in some cases even very quickly and provide a quickfix also very quickly. But there are also some reported problems that we haven't been able to reproduce or identify what is causing them and are also still pending for months or even years, so I completely understand also MS cannot fix some of the serious bugs quickly either.
What I think is the main difference regarding support between X# and a software developer like MS is that we can (and are willing I guess), to give support to _everybody_, and even for issues that are difficult to understand and reproduce, work with X# developers personally to try to understand them, narrow them down and eventually usually reproduce them, Robert has even done some one on one teamviewer sessions for such difficult problems. I understand for MS is it is difficult having this level of support, when they have millions of users, even though this is still probably their (and other large corporations') choice, they could had also hired more support personnel..I guess this is the main advantage of small companies, flexibility and being much closer to all the people using the product.
As you know, I also hate VS! (and almost all MS products for that matter, except for .Net Framework itself!) Every time I am trying to do something more than the very basics with it, I am also getting so many seemingly random errors, with completely unhelpful error messages, so I have completely abandoned doing any development work with it, I am only using it for testing X# integration and investigating/confirming and (in the case of VO editors) fixing myself problems reported on it, or passing them to Robert for fixing.
But still, I realize that some bugs and problems are extremely difficult to fix, when they only happen randomly and especially cannot be reproduced on the developers' machines. Most issues reported regarding X# are easily reproducible, so we can indeed confirm and fix them, in some cases even very quickly and provide a quickfix also very quickly. But there are also some reported problems that we haven't been able to reproduce or identify what is causing them and are also still pending for months or even years, so I completely understand also MS cannot fix some of the serious bugs quickly either.
What I think is the main difference regarding support between X# and a software developer like MS is that we can (and are willing I guess), to give support to _everybody_, and even for issues that are difficult to understand and reproduce, work with X# developers personally to try to understand them, narrow them down and eventually usually reproduce them, Robert has even done some one on one teamviewer sessions for such difficult problems. I understand for MS is it is difficult having this level of support, when they have millions of users, even though this is still probably their (and other large corporations') choice, they could had also hired more support personnel..I guess this is the main advantage of small companies, flexibility and being much closer to all the people using the product.
Chris Pyrgas
XSharp Development Team test
chris(at)xsharp.eu
XSharp Development Team test
chris(at)xsharp.eu
X# issue fixing versus Microsoft VS issue fixing
Hello Chris,
I agree with you completely. I use (only) 2 MS products which I find actually good (OneNote, the desktop version, and Spider Solitaire, the W7 version).
The problem with Microsoft is mainly that they concentrate on adding more features or completely redesigning things (especially user interfaces) while I think there is little attention for trying to solve hard to find bugs. Sure, some bugs they won't solve; every software developer will have that. But I think they don't try hard enough while their marketing department has unlimited funding ("I am soooooooooooooooooo excited to share with you the newest themes on Windows 11: now it's blue on grey instead of grey on blue").
Something like that.
Dick
I agree with you completely. I use (only) 2 MS products which I find actually good (OneNote, the desktop version, and Spider Solitaire, the W7 version).
The problem with Microsoft is mainly that they concentrate on adding more features or completely redesigning things (especially user interfaces) while I think there is little attention for trying to solve hard to find bugs. Sure, some bugs they won't solve; every software developer will have that. But I think they don't try hard enough while their marketing department has unlimited funding ("I am soooooooooooooooooo excited to share with you the newest themes on Windows 11: now it's blue on grey instead of grey on blue").
Something like that.
Dick
X# issue fixing versus Microsoft VS issue fixing
Hi Dick,
Yeah, completely agreed, it really hits on my nerves when they are doing that!
Yeah, completely agreed, it really hits on my nerves when they are doing that!
Chris Pyrgas
XSharp Development Team test
chris(at)xsharp.eu
XSharp Development Team test
chris(at)xsharp.eu
X# issue fixing versus Microsoft VS issue fixing
Dick,
Thanks for the nice words, although I would never compare our small team with MS. Thinking of the hassle of managing that many developers gives me a headache.
Robert
Thanks for the nice words, although I would never compare our small team with MS. Thinking of the hassle of managing that many developers gives me a headache.
Robert
XSharp Development Team
The Netherlands
robert@xsharp.eu
The Netherlands
robert@xsharp.eu
X# issue fixing versus Microsoft VS issue fixing
Easy - fire 95%robert wrote: ... Thinking of the hassle of managing that many developers gives me a headache.
Regards
Karl
(on Win8.1/64, Xide32 2.19, X#2.19.0.2.)
Karl
(on Win8.1/64, Xide32 2.19, X#2.19.0.2.)
X# issue fixing versus Microsoft VS issue fixing
I really like VS despite that the fact it may have bugs, but a software package with so much support for various languages and dialects is bound to have issues. Microsoft may not seem responsive to ambiguous bug reports, but in many cases they get fixed later because someone internally or externally experienced the issue. In the last few updates, they fixed lots of reported issues which proves they are serious about it. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/visual ... ease-notes
They also add new features: One cool feature the Hot Reload feature which allows you to update code while a program is running in Debug mode. Quote:
"when editing code files for applications such as WPF, Windows Forms, ASP.NET Core, Console, etc. With Hot Reload you can now modify your apps managed source code while the application is running with no need to pause execution or use a breakpoint. Instead, simply make a supported change and use the new “apply code changes” button in the toolbar to apply them immediately."
So, I would like to say: I don't expect to change your mind, but don't get fixated on being so critical of Microsoft products; Name one company that does not have bugs in their software.
Jamal
They also add new features: One cool feature the Hot Reload feature which allows you to update code while a program is running in Debug mode. Quote:
"when editing code files for applications such as WPF, Windows Forms, ASP.NET Core, Console, etc. With Hot Reload you can now modify your apps managed source code while the application is running with no need to pause execution or use a breakpoint. Instead, simply make a supported change and use the new “apply code changes” button in the toolbar to apply them immediately."
So, I would like to say: I don't expect to change your mind, but don't get fixated on being so critical of Microsoft products; Name one company that does not have bugs in their software.
Jamal
X# issue fixing versus Microsoft VS issue fixing
Hello Jamal,
How I feel about it seems to be more and more shared by other VS users, quite some comments are even less friendly than mine. And as I do work every day with Microsoft products it's hard not to get fixated.
And it's also very time consuming. For example: I have 3 monitors from which 3 is normally off, only on when I benefit from 3 screens. Yet VS has started at least a dozen times on monitor 3 where I never ran it. So that means switching monitor on, moving screen 1, moving screen 2, switching it off - until the next time.
So I decided to post an issue for it. I read complaints from up to 3 main VS versions back about the same problem (all "solved" , oh yes!) and when I wanted to post an issue, this should be done via Help/Send feedback...except that this option is not present in my menu. No idea why not. So I finally posted it in the VS for Mac section (https://developercommunity.visualstudio ... myfeedback if you are interested) .
When I've got a bit more time I will make a nice list of these shortcomings from all my notes and publish it here. Probably (or more accurate: hopefully) I have overlooked something here and there which some of you may be able to signal. Like I discovered only this week the block select mode (also for VO which I didn't know either).
But I seriously doubt that many of the shortcomings can or ever will be solved.
Dick
The reason is that I am getting despondent from the many serious shortcomings and bugs which never get solved. Yes, there's a list of 81 fixed issues for 16.11.0 and yes there is feature which sounds interesting and if we're very lucky it might even work. (I assume you have tried it). Many of the unfixed issues and shortcomings however are often so obvious that one wonders how one of the largest software companies in the world is not seeing them, let alone fix anything. When you search you often see many users reporting, often being closed by the developers for the reasons I wrote above, then they write it's solved and it isn't. Microsoft's money is spent mainly for marketing and that makes them different from many smaller companies with also bugs, but the real intention to solve as many as possible.Jamal wrote: So, I would like to say: I don't expect to change your mind, but don't get fixated on being so critical of Microsoft products; Name one company that does not have bugs in their software.
How I feel about it seems to be more and more shared by other VS users, quite some comments are even less friendly than mine. And as I do work every day with Microsoft products it's hard not to get fixated.
And it's also very time consuming. For example: I have 3 monitors from which 3 is normally off, only on when I benefit from 3 screens. Yet VS has started at least a dozen times on monitor 3 where I never ran it. So that means switching monitor on, moving screen 1, moving screen 2, switching it off - until the next time.
So I decided to post an issue for it. I read complaints from up to 3 main VS versions back about the same problem (all "solved" , oh yes!) and when I wanted to post an issue, this should be done via Help/Send feedback...except that this option is not present in my menu. No idea why not. So I finally posted it in the VS for Mac section (https://developercommunity.visualstudio ... myfeedback if you are interested) .
When I've got a bit more time I will make a nice list of these shortcomings from all my notes and publish it here. Probably (or more accurate: hopefully) I have overlooked something here and there which some of you may be able to signal. Like I discovered only this week the block select mode (also for VO which I didn't know either).
But I seriously doubt that many of the shortcomings can or ever will be solved.
Dick
X# issue fixing versus Microsoft VS issue fixing
Dick,
On my system (Windows 10 Pro), Send Feedback option appears in the Help menu and the feedback works fine.
Have you tried to repair VS installation?
You can also try to clean VS cache folders %USERPROFILE%AppDataLocalMicrosoftVisualStudio
Look for folders that starts with 16.0.
As for the Hot Reload: Yes, it works and save me lot of time. So far, I used it with ASP.NET websites.
On my system (Windows 10 Pro), Send Feedback option appears in the Help menu and the feedback works fine.
Have you tried to repair VS installation?
You can also try to clean VS cache folders %USERPROFILE%AppDataLocalMicrosoftVisualStudio
Look for folders that starts with 16.0.
As for the Hot Reload: Yes, it works and save me lot of time. So far, I used it with ASP.NET websites.
X# issue fixing versus Microsoft VS issue fixing
Hello Jamal,
I have not tried to repair the VS installation or clear caches as it will most likely break something else that is more important than being able to post an issue (which is never going to be fixed anyway ).
I have never changed the menu's but yet my Help menu looks completely different from that in the "How to report a problem" website. And on a laptop, installed the same way and using the same exported VS settings, the menu does look nearly like that one on the site, including Send feedback. I will update that version and install the latest X# there, see if that maybe changes the Help menu somehow.
If not, it illustrates why I find VS extremely instable and unpredictable. I wish I wouldn't need to be fixated on the shortcomings of Microsoft products :unsure:
Dick
I have not tried to repair the VS installation or clear caches as it will most likely break something else that is more important than being able to post an issue (which is never going to be fixed anyway ).
I have never changed the menu's but yet my Help menu looks completely different from that in the "How to report a problem" website. And on a laptop, installed the same way and using the same exported VS settings, the menu does look nearly like that one on the site, including Send feedback. I will update that version and install the latest X# there, see if that maybe changes the Help menu somehow.
If not, it illustrates why I find VS extremely instable and unpredictable. I wish I wouldn't need to be fixated on the shortcomings of Microsoft products :unsure:
Dick